Combining 30/38+ as 1 age group

    Eric,
   
    I dont think this is a bad idea, but I dont think it will work when someone goes to nationals. I think if you look at lap times they are very close.

Mike Cosaert 929g

Just looked and in the 5 races I've done this year as a 30 beginner, I've never had somebody else in my class. If I bump myself to novice at those 5 races I would have also not raced anyone in my class.  Am I ok with the current system as long as I am on the same gate with other age groups and heading into turn 1 with 10 or so people, yes.  Would I like to have more people in my class, of course.  I do see where this would be tough to integrate at the nationals, but if it could happen I would like it.

Question?
1. Someone mention Nationals: to race you will have to run 2 races in your class...
2. We run this class together most often anyhow do we not; just score it separate. 
I remember running my lips on the line over the last few races as I think All Begs
left in one gate...yes, I am sure I was whining over that... :-*
3. So, it is already being done...really, would scoring it as one class make it any
more competitive?  I don't care who or what is in front of me...I want to pass 
him/she or it! ;D

Question can this be voted on in December the year is not over it is not 2012 good idea what is needed to make it happen

Elvis 14g
Viva Las Vegas

This would fall in line with what some have tried to do last few years and thats make it a 30+ class/ 40+ class /50+ class. But for now it would just be adjusting the 30's right?

So it would be
30+
45+
52+
60+

I see plenty of positives you mentioned, bigger gates etc. In 30 Int class the 38's seem to run same speeds as us younger guys, some even faster. Only problem I see is in our Club since we race with Sierra, the 30+ Novice and 38 Novice sometimes have more then one gate worth of riders so they split the gates.  At Nationals it would be possibly a bigger problem. You get 25 30+ Novices and 25 38+ Novices and now they are one class, you could have 50 guys trying to line up on a gate that only has 30-40 slots. Then what do you do?

The only way it could work would be to reclassify riders and look to even out classes by making bumps After the first few races and be ready before first national. It could work in averaging out about 20-25 riders in every class. Wouldnt that be fun. Before people vote though I think someone should start looking at all the chapters or at least at the Nationals this year and see how it would have affected over crowding in say the Novice class. You can make a rule that sometimes is opnly used for your local club races but this rule would affect all chapters.

Also, to me, the 60+ class hasnt really taken off. It could get better in next few years, but you coulod help beginners with bigger gates by elimnating 60+as a lot of them would fall back into 52 Beg or 52 Novice.

I think though with age you sometimes do get slower, take less risks  or ride all together different then a 30-35 year old. There are still plenty in 50's that smoke a 30 year old. But I like seeing the closer age split of 45 and 52, vs a 40/50 class.

And to play devils advocate, since this does affect other chapters, some will say leave it alone, the other chapters like us have decent sized gates. So then you look at maybe just combinig 30/38 for your local races to give you more people to race. The real problem is in 30/38 int and expert classes.  They are smaler in every chapter. So you can also bump more to even out classes. COntinue to have true beginners in beginner class, Novices should still ride like Novices and not always be clearing and executing every portion of track. I see some chapter where there novices smoke our Intermediates and vice versa. So some adjusting can also help class sizes. Anyways, I think all chapters are for a change if it betters the OTHG. We are all in this together and need to survive and grow together.

This would fall in line with what some have tried to do last few years and thats make it a 30+ class/ 40+ class /50+ class. But for now it would just be adjusting the 30's right?

So it would be
30+
45+
52+
60+

I see plenty of positives you mentioned, bigger gates etc. In 30 Int class the 38's seem to run same speeds as us younger guys, some even faster. Only problem I see is in our Club since we race with Sierra, the 30+ Novice and 38 Novice sometimes have more then one gate worth of riders so they split the gates.  At Nationals it would be possibly a bigger problem. You get 25 30+ Novices and 25 38+ Novices and now they are one class, you could have 50 guys trying to line up on a gate that only has 30-40 slots. Then what do you do?

The only way it could work would be to reclassify riders and look to even out classes by making bumps After the first few races and be ready before first national. It could work in averaging out about 20-25 riders in every class. Wouldnt that be fun. Before people vote though I think someone should start looking at all the chapters or at least at the Nationals this year and see how it would have affected over crowding in say the Novice class. You can make a rule that sometimes is opnly used for your local club races but this rule would affect all chapters.

Also, to me, the 60+ class hasnt really taken off. It could get better in next few years, but you coulod help beginners with bigger gates by elimnating 60+as a lot of them would fall back into 52 Beg or 52 Novice.

I think though with age you sometimes do get slower, take less risks  or ride all together different then a 30-35 year old. There are still plenty in 50's that smoke a 30 year old. But I like seeing the closer age split of 45 and 52, vs a 40/50 class.

And to play devils advocate, since this does affect other chapters, some will say leave it alone, the other chapters like us have decent sized gates. So then you look at maybe just combinig 30/38 for your local races to give you more people to race. The real problem is in 30/38 int and expert classes.  They are smaler in every chapter. So you can also bump more to even out classes. COntinue to have true beginners in beginner class, Novices should still ride like Novices and not always be clearing and executing every portion of track. I see some chapter where there novices smoke our Intermediates and vice versa. So some adjusting can also help class sizes. Anyways, I think all chapters are for a change if it betters the OTHG. We are all in this together and need to survive and grow together.

Well said Mike and Yes it would be 30, 45, 52, maybe 60 if it takes off. Guys/gals don't generally like to show up to a race pay $45 to race them selves. This will create more competition for the 30/38. I for one don't participate with the gang that much because of this reason.. I don't like spending $45 for 14 laps to race myself when i can go ride for $20 all day.

Question?
1. Someone mention Nationals: to race you will have to run 2 races in your class...
2. We run this class together most often anyhow do we not; just score it separate. 
I remember running my lips on the line over the last few races as I think All Begs
left in one gate...yes, I am sure I was whining over that... :-*
3. So, it is already being done...really, would scoring it as one class make it any
more competitive?  I don't care who or what is in front of me...I want to pass 
him/she or it! ;D

Best reply so far.

Question?
1. Someone mention Nationals: to race you will have to run 2 races in your class...
2. We run this class together most often anyhow do we not; just score it separate. 
I remember running my lips on the line over the last few races as I think All Begs
left in one gate...yes, I am sure I was whining over that... :-*
3. So, it is already being done...really, would scoring it as one class make it any
more competitive?  I don't care who or what is in front of me...I want to pass 
him/she or it! ;Do

To help answer some of your questions .

1. Yes you will still need to have your 2 rides in if your a new member. You will be grandfathered in if you race your two races this year in either 30 or 38+.

3. Yes it will make it more competitive cause there will be more riders in these classes. The first national is the only national that I can see a possible problem with to many riders but that is only in 1 or 2 classes maybe. 

    Remeber this merger will not effect 45+ & 52+ in any way and this is to help build the younger classes.

As an ultra-slow 38+Beg, I can honestly say it doesn't matter AT ALL to me who I'm racing, or whether I'm out there alone.  I'm just trying to not crash, and finish the same day I start.

    Eric,
   
    I dont think this is a bad idea, but I dont think it will work when someone goes to nationals. I think if you look at lap times they are very close.

Mike Cosaert 929g

Not sure this will work, mainly at Nationals.If you still say yes it can, how?

I just looked and at Sierra National, we may have had over the amount of gates in 30/38 Novice if they were combined. Also at Bay National at Hollister, there were 13 30+ Novices and 29 38+ Novices so no track would hold that many gates. We had 15 30+ Intermediates and 12 38+ intermediates. Even that would have been tight. A lot of tracks only have close to 30 gates. Few that have 40.

So it still goes back to trying to increase gate sizes in each individual class, maybe bump some on the edge of next class and just overall increase membership and you will get bigger gates.

The problem with bumping is we have know one to bump in these age groups.. Most if not all the tracks here are 40 man gates. As of right now the number of riders are decreasing not increasing. Only 2 out 5 nationals may be an issue. I'm sure there are ways we can work out the details...

Heres a question. The 45 nov is the biggest class What are you going to do if more than 30 to 40 of them show up And the gate can barely hold 30 riders? Kind of sounds like your just coming up with reasons to not merge these age groups.

You can only take the amount of entries that the gate will hold for that track. If you have to many the solution that i have seen many time is split the gate and they do three motos. Two motos with the groups they are in and the third moto will be a race off for the top 10 or more" depends on gate allowance" in each group will race together.. Or Just make it group A and group B and you can have 2 winners for that class..

Heres a question. The 45 nov is the biggest class What are you going to do if more than 30 to 40 of them show up And the gate can barely hold 30 riders? Kind of sounds like your just coming up with reasons to not merge these age groups.

You can only take the amount of entries that the gate will hold for that track. If you have to many the solution that i have seen many time is split the gate and they do three motos. Two motos with the groups they are in and the third moto will be a race off for the top 10 or more" depends on gate allowance" in each group will race together.. Or Just make it group A and group B and you can have 2 winners for that class..

Not trying to be difficult, just looking at all angles. As long as I have 2-3 guys Im close in speed with to race, im having fun. We havent had a problem up in this area. I know you guys down there are having issues with small gates. If something changes it has to work for all of us. Im all for change if its for good of membership. Can we make it work, sure. We did a race at a small OHV track Metcalf last year and they put in a temp gate. It only had about 20 slots. So 38 novice had a few guys starting on outside edges of gate and a few guys that voluntered to run behind riders since they were normally back of pack guys. We made it work, but it wasnt perfect.

I just think if you take something that isnt broke for Bay/Sierra Chapters and change it and then we have a big problem at National, it will hurt the clubs. So all I was doing was asking so that you or someone else smarter then me could say "hey,do it this way" and then it might all make sense.

I personally was fond of the idea of 30/40/50 class structure. That had its pros and cons too but it would definately get bigger gates.

  I still think more of the focus needs to be on getting riders out to try out the Gang. Since you guys are having a hard time and have more competiton, what if you tried something like $20 to race your first Gang race or $20 for first two races to truly eval and then back to $35 to race. I think once you get people sigen up, they will have a blast. If you need to, combine 30/38 gates for local races so that the new guy coming in sees a lot of people on gate and says wow, this is fun. On other hand, some beginners have liked only having 2-3 guys on gate, it was less intimidating for first few races.
Then occasionally hold a free raffle and do a BBQ. We did 2-3 free bbq's this year. Hot dogs and hamburgers, sodas are cheap. Just selling tshurts can make a little extra cash to cover cost of BBQ. Then we would get a sponsor like Kali Helmets or cycle gear or local bike dealer to donate a helmet or a set of tires. We would randomly draw a name of the race sign up sheet and that person won the raffle. We did give away during morning riders meeting and the smiles and success this year were huge. Every race we have cookies and muscle milk sitting at signup table, with lots of smiling board members and volunteers hanging out. Our OTHG tshirst are on display and so when a new guy pulls in, they are pleasantly suprised at how well its run and how fun it is. So we can still try to change class structure and age structure but I think you guys need to work on getting more members back first.

Remember Eric, you and me are going to be the two old guys some day in this Club saying "this is how its always been and this is how it will stay" .l ;D  For now though we are younger and excited and need to keep it fun. Then some new young whipper snappers will come in the 30+ class as we are racing the 60+ class and tell us how it should work.  😮 8)

Well just a heads up Mike I'll be moving to the 38 class next year if this doesn't happen.. I think i'm one the oldest guys in the 30 class.  😛 😛                   
    I think next year the 45 nov class will be growing with guys moving up with age and some being bumped.. The combining of 30/38 will be on the same playing field as the 45 nov when it comes to rider count at nationals. So either your gonna find a way for everyone to race or your gonna have to limit the entries to the amount of gate slots the track will hold.. Not everybody pre signs for Nationals..